Playing With Zirconia
So, I've always thought you can't polish a turd, but maybe you can. I've been trying everything in my bag of tricks to make the cerec zirc look good. My go to has been gc paste, but to make these things look good and to have the occlusion not change I'm using jumbo milling offsets in my parameters, or I'm having to adjust the occlusion. I've tried combinations of the gc and emax stains in the speed fire, but the emax stains just don't look great coming out of that oven. I know it's supposed to end the world if we try to put anything off label in the oven, but the sun is still rising. This was my first shot at using a combination of emax stains with vita glaze in a short oven cycle. It's my typical empress technique or my go to for emax that is going to require more than one oven cycle. It's still not perfect, and the fact that I need a second oven cycle for staining is a bit annoying, but I think this one will be a winner when we get some nicer looking zirc options for the speed fire.
Very Nice Robert.... interested in the details as well. Still awaiting my speedfire, and see some nice alterations to what is not as nice as e.max, but has a lot of practicality in a lot of situations which I am excited about. As long as this is on the CEREC boards, where we are accustomed to same day dentistry for most of these cases, I'm curious to see for the ones being customized so well, what is your time line....
Mark
Awesome! That is one of the best looking ones i've seen.
Here is another thing I have been working on with infiltration...
Infiltrate:
Polish after sintering:
Stain/Glaze with GC Lustre Pastes:
Final:
On 5/5/2016 at 9:56 am, David Edelson said...Beautiful! Could be twisting my arm?
Uh oh.... I'm already on board, but beauty vs time is still an open question.... what's possible, what's practical-- no right answer here, but sure appreciate the trailblazers figuring it out
Mark
Just stain and glaze takes me 90 minutes. If I infiltrate, it takes 2 hours because you have to run on the wet cycle.
David, I think an Emax LT loving dentist could easily fall for zirconia aesthetics.
Mike, when the furnace is available separately will the ordinary MCXL user get any of the benefits of the customisation of the firing cycle? Or will we only be able to use the furnace on a pre programmed standard wet milling sinter cycle?
I guess I'm asking if the AC talks to the furnace or does it need the new dry mill before there's any communications advantage?
On 5/5/2016 at 10:58 am, Damian Chung said... David, I think an Emax LT loving dentist could easily fall for zirconia aesthetics.
Mike, when the furnace is available separately will the ordinary MCXL user get any of the benefits of the customisation of the firing cycle? Or will we only be able to use the furnace on a pre programmed standard wet milling sinter cycle?
I guess I'm asking if the AC talks to the furnace or does it need the new dry mill before there's any communications advantage?
All programs are preprogrammed in. No customization on the Speedfire at this time. AC talks to the furnace. All 3 of my mills (wet/dry, old inlab MCXL and "wet" MCX) send data to the furnace on jobs the furnace can handle. For example, mill a Celtra Duo on MCX and that job gets sent to the furance for firing/glazing. Vita Mark II milled on inlab MCXL, job sent to the furnace. Zirconia wet milled in MCX, job gets sent to the furnace.
I book the same as I do for any crown. 2 hours. I always have stuff overlapped, and side booked though. Unless there is other work to do on the pt with the crown. As for the oven setting you can tweak the #'s a little depending on the oven, but on the progromat I have a setting of B 649 C, S 3min, T-> 70, T 921 C, H 0. I use that with the vita glaze and emax stains. The same parameters are faster for some reason on one of my other ovens, but it's an 8 min cycle on the Ivoclar oven, so it's a wash time wise vs the speed fire glaze cycle. Just gave me a better result than the speed fire with the stain and glaze I'm most comfortable with. I think we will get this dialed in, but a better looking zirc is going to be the answer. I did a zirc molar and emax bi yesterday, and didn't get any pictures. The match wasn't terrible. Kind of like having an emax lt next to an empress multi.
Beautiful Mike...so I'm assuming when you fire with Lustre Paste, it is the usual Lustre Paste program or is it different for Zirconia? Have you tweaked your firing settings?
You cannot tweak if you run in Speedfire. To be honest, I am leaning just toward infiltrating and polishing. Compare the two. Top one is Polish only after sintering!
This is a work in progress and I plan to have a workflow done for my lecture at Siroworld
Great comparison Mike...And there isn't much difference...especially if we are comparing molars and occlusal characterization. And as I'm sure you will describe, infiltration and polishing only makes the workflow a lot faster.
I believe mike s. said at one point, we can use our wetmill mcxl for zirconia (16min to cut), then hand polish, and then 27 min. Sinter which I assume includes the dry time?
if a second molar where I don't need stain and glaze..is that it? 16min plus 27min then cement a .5mm thickness crown?
that sounds too good. Missing anything?
On 7/14/2016 at 11:33 am, Jeff Levy said...I believe mike s. said at one point, we can use our wetmill mcxl for zirconia (16min to cut), then hand polish, and then 27 min. Sinter which I assume includes the dry time?
if a second molar where I don't need stain and glaze..is that it? 16min plus 27min then cement a .5mm thickness crown?
that sounds too good. Missing anything?
Just missing the oven that they only sell as a combo with the new mill. Not sure when they will sell it stand alone, but for all I know they are already selling them separately. I've been polishing upper second molars. Kills me not to stain because I'm a bit nuts, but it's my white gold for #2, and 15.
But if you can take that 27 min time to dry and sinter and turn it into a 13 or so minute singer than there is no time difference versus eMax...
so maybe we can trade in our wet mill
for a dry mill plus speed fire for what cost ?any ideas?
Mike,
A little late to this party but am raring to go. Can you explain the infiltrate methodology?
Dan
I have gotten some decent results using a "dry layer" technique. I lay down a blue/gray layer where i want more shadow then open my programat oven and hold it under the hood for a minute to evaporate the moisture. Then "stack" a few highlights on top of that, then speedfire glaze cycle. It's the best i have gotten with playing around using only GC Lustre Paste.
